Should I Go?

What are your favorite Haunted Places?
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Kolchak » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:17 pm

You have to wonder about people like that when they tell you not to bother reading something because, they already have and can tell you that its bad for you. Kinda' sounds like the government. Probably why religion and politics but heads all the time. They both want your money and both want to tell you how you should live your life.

The Catholic church wanted Catholics to eat fish on Friday for the longest time. A religious reason was given for the requirement, but the truth was much more human. The Vatican owned the largest fishing fleet in the world up into the early 20th century.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Murfreesboro » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:02 am

Seriously? I never knew the Vatican owned a fishing fleet! :lol:

Sometimes I think we'd all be better off if we ate fish at least one day a week, though. It would probably be good for our health.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Kolchak » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:45 pm

Well, now if you're opting to take us all to Red Lobster.....Count me in!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8) :wink:


I enjoy a good low country or as I call it, a Florida boil. Get some Florida Gulf coast jumbo shrimp, medium or large Florida stone crab claws, Georgia Boy hot smoked sausage, Vidalia onions, medium red potatoes, 10 ears of corn cut in half, and a heaping package of Zatarains boil seasoning. Boil them bad boys up and you will be eating good all day. 8) :wink:
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Kolchak » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:48 pm

Murfreesboro wrote:Seriously? I never knew the Vatican owned a fishing fleet! :lol:

Sometimes I think we'd all be better off if we ate fish at least one day a week, though. It would probably be good for our health.


The Catholic church has quite a few things they're ashamed of. That being one. Exorcism, Inquisition, pedophile priests, indulgences.....Well. You get the idea.

Now that gay marriage is legal in the US, I want to see how Pope Francis will handle it?
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Murfreesboro » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:58 am

Well, my husband was reading about the decision on line, and it seems, for now, that all nine justices insisted religious freedom couldn't be trampled on. Statements to that effect were included in both the majority and dissenting opinions. He interprets that to mean that, for example, gay people can now be legally married anywhere, but the frivolous lawsuits against bakers who don't want to make them wedding cakes will have to stop. I do think it is necessary for institutions like churches, and perhaps individual people as well, to make statements about their beliefs. His church, Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, came out immediately with a letter stating their unwillingness to perform gay marriages. Ditto the Anglican church, with which I am not formally affiliated; but as a lapsed Episcopalian, the Anglicans are the ones with whom I identify now. I am on their mailing list.

I happen to agree with Mark Levin that we are living under a tyranny now. The torturous Supreme Court decisions that upheld the Affordable Health Care Act proved to me that the nine justices who rule us are no longer paying attention to the letter of the law. They say whatever they like. If they approve of a law, they support it. If they don't, presumably they won't. It will be interesting to see how they handle the (I think inevitable) challenges that will now arise re reciprocity for handgun permits. If TN now has to honor marriage licenses for gay people issued, say, in NY, then why isn't it necessary for NY to honor TN's handgun carry permits?

And don't get me started about the Confederate flag controversy. David French of National Review on line eloquently pointed out that you can still get Nazi, Soviet, and Chairman Mao memorabilia on line from all those stores that have recently banned sale of the Confederate flag. Those who have called for its purging are not, IMO, primarily motivated by the desire to end racism. Instead, they want to erase history and to punish the most conservative section of the country be removing its cherished symbol of sectional pride.

I have zero interest in celebrating the 4th of July next week. I feel it will be a completely hollow celebration. The nation our forefathers fought so hard to establish is dead.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Kolchak » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:04 pm

Murfreesboro wrote:Well, my husband was reading about the decision on line, and it seems, for now, that all nine justices insisted religious freedom couldn't be trampled on. Statements to that effect were included in both the majority and dissenting opinions. He interprets that to mean that, for example, gay people can now be legally married anywhere, but the frivolous lawsuits against bakers who don't want to make them wedding cakes will have to stop. I do think it is necessary for institutions like churches, and perhaps individual people as well, to make statements about their beliefs. His church, Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, came out immediately with a letter stating their unwillingness to perform gay marriages. Ditto the Anglican church, with which I am not formally affiliated; but as a lapsed Episcopalian, the Anglicans are the ones with whom I identify now. I am on their mailing list.

I happen to agree with Mark Levin that we are living under a tyranny now. The torturous Supreme Court decisions that upheld the Affordable Health Care Act proved to me that the nine justices who rule us are no longer paying attention to the letter of the law. They say whatever they like. If they approve of a law, they support it. If they don't, presumably they won't. It will be interesting to see how they handle the (I think inevitable) challenges that will now arise re reciprocity for handgun permits. If TN now has to honor marriage licenses for gay people issued, say, in NY, then why isn't it necessary for NY to honor TN's handgun carry permits?

And don't get me started about the Confederate flag controversy. David French of National Review on line eloquently pointed out that you can still get Nazi, Soviet, and Chairman Mao memorabilia on line from all those stores that have recently banned sale of the Confederate flag. Those who have called for its purging are not, IMO, primarily motivated by the desire to end racism. Instead, they want to erase history and to punish the most conservative section of the country be removing its cherished symbol of sectional pride.

I have zero interest in celebrating the 4th of July next week. I feel it will be a completely hollow celebration. The nation our forefathers fought so hard to establish is dead.


Amen. Amen. Amen.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby MauEvig » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:38 pm

Despite not being Catholic, I do quite enjoy a good fish fry. They were literally everywhere in my little part of New York that I used to call my home. In my humbled opinion, the best fish is Haddock. But I think that's a New York thing, or a Northern thing at least because I can't find it anywhere in the South. I might have to bring some home in our new cooler the next time we go up there, and keep it on ice the whole way home. Nothing beats some fried battered haddock, with some tartar sauce, and fries on the side. I tried to convince the store I work at to carry it, but I'm not even sure they can get it. I didn't know about the Vatican owning a fishing fleet either. I wouldn't say fish is my favorite food per say, but sometimes you just get that hunkering for some good ol' sea food. I sure do miss those fish fries. Wegmans certainly had a good one.

While I do agree with gay marriage being legal, I don't agree that people should have to perform certain obligations like cater to customers who want a gay marriage cake. If I owned a bakery I probably wouldn't mind all that much, I'm not a religious individual and I support the gay population. In my opinion love is love regardless of the gender of that individual. But I do think businesses have a right to refuse service if they feel that it's wrong. Certain religions have a right to have their own practices, including refusing to recognize gay marriages. That's just how religion works, if you want to be part of it, you have to follow their rules. If I wanted to say, convert to Judaism (giving this example due to my Jewish ancestry), I would have to follow Jewish law and custom.

And I have joked around about starting a bakery before. I imagine it would be tiring work, but I see decorating cookies and cakes as another extension of creativity and art on my part. My mother used to work in a bakery years ago when I was a kid. It was one of those in-store kind of bakeries. It could be fun, but I think it'd be more fun if I was the owner than having to follow someone else's directions on it. When you work for someone else; you have to follow their vision and it really takes the fun out of it. I don't have the time or the money for that sort of thing. It would be a neat thing to have in our area though, besides a certain extremely expensive local resort; or Walmart.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Boogeyman » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:56 pm

Murf,

That point about the Second Amendment was raised by Bearingarms.com

http://bearingarms.com/scotus-ruling-se ... ciprocity/

As for the gay marriage issue itself, it was never about marriage. While there may be some just want the right to marry someone of the same <deleted>, those behind the scenes have an entirely different agenda. Note the applause in the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKI-w6DLWBM

And again you are right about the hypocrisy on the issue of the Confederate flag. That is also why the Black Lives Mater movement is a joke. If black lives do matter, why are they shooting each other and having abortions? They are right, black lives matter, but so does all life.
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.

Henry David Thoreau
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Kolchak » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:16 pm

There is a Confederate cemetery off I-24 just outside of Murfreesboro that I stop at and pay my respects when I'm in middle Tennessee. When I was dating my wife, we stopped there on our way to visit family in Jackson and Memphis. We took few pictures and her father had one of the pictures published in the Cuban edition of the Lions club magazine he subscribes too. I can't begin to tell you how many of the Cuban members that saw the photo spoke highly and positively and most important intelligently about preserving heritage and to take pride in your past. But that could never be shown in the lame stream media.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Kolchak » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:22 pm

Talk about other attempts to screw up where we live.....

The Tennessee state flag has three stars on it. Each star represents part of the state. East. West and Middle Tennessee. There is no such place as central Tennessee. It is and will always be MIDDLE Tennessee. Same thing with Georgia. There is no such thing as central Georgia. It is MIDDLE Georgia. A surefire way to tell someone is not a native, is when you hear them use inaccurate terminology about the locale they reside.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Murfreesboro » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:54 am

Did you hear someone call it Central TN, Kolchak? I missed that. Yeah, for sure, it is Middle TN. And if people know the state, the three regions are quite distinct from each other.

I haven't felt very well this weekend, so I haven't been driving around much. There is a Confederate Circle in the cemetery in the center of Murfreesboro where the rebel flag always flies over the graves of many men who died for it. I have been curious to see if it is still up there now. I haven't heard of its being removed.

Boogeyman, my husband links daily to that very forum, Bearing Arms. Also, I had heard a portion of what that Lesbian activist had said before, but I hadn't heard her complete statement on the subject, so thanks for that link.

Mau, I think if you seriously wanted to own a bakery, the first thing to do would be to apprentice yourself to someone else, even it were in supermarket bakery. Learn the craft and then, if you still felt up to it, branch out with your own bakery.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby MauEvig » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:01 am

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it. I suppose I have mixed feelings about the Confederate flag, and it's not just because I'm a Northerner.
Is it hypocritical? Absolutely. In fact, being of Jewish descent I think I'd be much more offended if people were waving around a Nazi flag than the Confederate flag. However, in light of a friend of mine who is a black individual I work with at the shop who wrote an article that touched base on the subject in his blog, I can see where the Confederate flag is a symbol of oppression and hatred for some people. Yet on the opposing side, those who are descendents of the people who served on the Confederate side of the war, it's a symbol of hope and freedom, as well as independence from the oppressive Union.
Arguably then, a lot of it is about perspective.
I have mixed feelings about the Civil war as well; you all have enlightened me about William Sherman. Either I didn't pay enough attention in History class as a kid, or else he simply isn't celebrated as a hero like Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S Grant. I can certainly see why considering his destruction of the Native Americans. We can all agree that the war was a tragedy with neither side being right.
But suppose the South didn't support slavery; and weren't trying to leave the Union because of their right to own slaves being infringed upon; but merely to separate from the Union because they didn't like what the central Government was doing? That's a whole different ball game. Then I might have actually supported the Southern side; because looking at the way the Government is today I can't help but wonder if the South would have been better off. Maybe so, maybe not. There's a lot of speculation on what would have happened if the South won; but the reasoning behind the South separating from the Union is going to affect how I feel about it. However; because many of the Southerners wanted to keep their slaves and oppress black individuals; which continued on even after the Civil war in a sort of "Neo slavery" where blacks were denied rights and threatened with their lives if they left, and paid meager wages to "compensate" for slavery; I can't say that I would side with the South. But the North isn't exactly innocent either due to their destruction of Native American lands, food supplies (culling buffalo herds) and destroying their homes, rounding up and killing their people etc. So I'm actually neutral on the issue. From what I read and I could be wrong, but the South was inclined to leave the Native Americans alone. Considering the amount of hatred and vengeance the North delivered the South during the war; I can't blame the South for being bitter. But one has to consider that this was 150 years ago; I think people should learn to let it go rather than teaching hate to future generations. I'm sure many already have. But in smaller communities like my own; people still act like it's going on: though in more subtle and verbal ways than through guns and canons.
Do I believe we should eliminate the Confederate flag from memory? No, absolutely not! And this is coming from a Notherner. :lol: (I actually saw someone with a rebel flag up North! With a New York plate interestingly enough). We should be free to express ourselves; it's like freedom of speech! I'm not for censorship. But! One also has to consider that some individuals can be sensitive toward the issue. Personally the only place I would even consider hanging a Confederate flag would be in a history classroom. People need to know this stuff. But I wouldn't go waving one in my car or my home. I will however, wave the American flag; because despite all this country has been through, despite having a ill corrupt Government, I am still proud to be born an American. It's how I was raised; in the culture and tradition of America. I won't be ashamed of where I was born. This also applies to the fact that I was born in the North. But that doesn't mean I can't love and appreciate the South either.
Now it's true that in most parts of the world, it's difficult to be a male white American these days. Jobs, Colleges, you name it! In fact, I do dare to say that if you are black you're more likely to be hired even if you don't have the same credentials. I neither believe that's right, nor do I believe that's what Martin Luther King Jr envisioned. I believe he envisioned equal opportunity for everyone, not favoritism. But I will say here in this small community in Virginia, while it is certainly beautiful and it has a lot of rich culture and history, there's an ugly side to it, and quite the opposite! If you aren't born a white male, and raised in this community, and born with a family name that's already been established with importance, you're out of luck. I've been turned down at the Resort Hotel for work despite applying more than once, and I even had someone in the Hotel to put a good word in for me. I gave up on them, I wouldn't want to work for someone who requires me to work every holiday and every weekend. I'm actually happier making minimum wage and getting Sundays off, and sure I have to work Holidays but I'm at least guaranteed to have Christmas day off. I already know I'm working toward something better right now, and I'm happy I made the decision to return to school and teach. I know I'm on the right path.
Ironically, my dad has said that black people complain about this as well, because they don't want to be hired simply for being black. They want to be hired because they earned it. That's how it should be for everyone, regardless of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.

I apologize if I have offended anyone; I know sometimes we don't always agree with each other's opinions; but I certainly do respect yours even if it's different from mine.

:lol: Murf the entire thing about the bakery was just me joking around, especially if I won the lottery. But I think it's something Bath County would enjoy anyway.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Murfreesboro » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:45 am

I love the Confederate flag because it reminds me of my home and my heritage. I would never display one outdoors because it has become dangerous. (I will always have one in the privacy of my home, however.) Shortly after we moved back here from VA in the mid-90s, a young white man was murdered simply because he had the rebel flag stretched across the back windshield of his pick-up truck, which is (or used to be) a common decoration in this part of the country. Three black guys who didn't even know him pulled up next to him at a stop light and shot him dead. Turns out he was a young (23, IIRC) married man with a toddler at home.

The three guys who murdered him were put on trial and sentenced. I no longer recall if they were prosecuted for a "hate crime" (a term I loathe, actually, as if there were "love crimes" going on out there), but clearly they should have been. If a white guy in TN had murdered three blacks just because they were black, you would still be hearing about it.

I do think it is censorship to deny people the right to purchase a Confederate flag, and it is extremely hypocritical to do so when other flags which have been used for much more widespread oppression and hate are readily available.

As for the causes of the Civil War, I believe Southerners fought for all kinds of reasons. Some of them did fight because they wanted to perpetuate the institution of slavery. Others fought because the Northern armies invaded and were basically in their backyards. Still others fought because they genuinely believed it was a second American Revolution, and they were fighting for their rights. It was a very complex era. And for sure the Northerners were not the angels of mercy coming to free the slaves as they are so often depicted today. The abolitionists were fired up about slavery, but most of the Northerners, I believe, were fighting to preserve the Union, whatever that took.

My husband and I lived in Virginia for about 9 years, I guess, first in Richmond, and then in Staunton. Both our boys were born up there. It is a very beautiful state with a lot of history, both Revolutionary and Civil War era. However, we did not find it fully representative of "our" South. VA seemed to us much more status-conscious, at times downright snobbish, than the South we knew. It is Southern with a difference. I'm just saying, enjoy Virginia, but don't think the rest of the South is exactly like it.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby MauEvig » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:36 pm

Well like I said, I find the Nazi flag more offensive than the Confederate flag. I can certainly understand why you'd stand by it. For me I see it as a part of history and I don't believe history should be erased. Killing someone just for waving the Confederate flag is going too far; and I can certainly see your point there. It's a shame that a tragedy like this would happen. I know my co-worker finds the flag offensive, but I know he wouldn't stoop to that level of violence. He prefers to speak out in words instead. I'm neutral on it, because I try to look at it from both sides of the coin. I can understand your side of it, being proud of your heritage, your home and what the South had to fight for. No doubt it's a sensitive issue, and unfortunately I don't think there's any sort of middle ground that can be sought out here. But one thing is for certain, murder is wrong and I don't condone the actions of those men. You do have a point though; if a white man murders a black man it's national news, a black man kills a white man and give it less than 24 hours and no one cares. I even remember once my father was assaulted by a black man. The thing is; harming another person is wrong no matter what. It doesn't matter what skin color they are, it's wrong. But I think our history with black individuals is the reason why it stands out more; and we're too afraid to speak up when something like that does happen. One thing I know for sure though; there are good and bad people in all races, genders, cultures and religions. It's unfortunate that the bad seem to stand out much worse than the good. The Muslims are a good example of this. Most people think of the Muslims as terrorists, but the terrorists only represent a very small percentage of all the practitioners of Islam.
The truth is, hate is hate. Hate begets hate. Discrimination is discrimination.
It's OK to be proud of your heritage. It's just unfortunate that it comes with some controversial points of view. It's the extremists everyone has to watch out for. I am concerned sometimes when I see the flag due to me being from the North; but I hope that people can put their differences aside and realize despite whether we're born in the North or South, we're all still Americans here. I got called a "yankee" more than once when I first came down here, and not in a nice way either. It bothers me a bit, but I try not to let it get to me too much.
I do not think we should have to censor ourselves; but one does have to be careful that they aren't sending the wrong message. That's why like I said, the only place I'd probably hang a Confederate flag is in a history classroom. Kids deserve to know everything there is to know about history, and especially their heiritage regardless of it's in the North or South. But I do think the bitterness needs to be let go of. I see where you're coming from with Virginia...I don't think it's just Virginia either really. I think a lot of it is this little local area I live in. For sure, there are good people down here, and not everyone is rude or snobbish like that. Virginia has it's bad side, but that said it's brought me more good than harm. There are people I consider to be good country folk. This past winter, a man plowed out our driveway without asking anything in return. I've seen the kindness in some of the locals. I've made friends here, and I get to experience buying fireworks without having to sneak across the other state's border. There's some cool places down here that are fun to go to. There's rich history, and lots of beauty. I've been very successful at Dabney and met a lot of really intelligent people there, both Students and Professors, who are very friendly and open minded. Alleghany County school district treated me with kindness when I did my observations. They didn't see me as a Northerner, but a woman with a passion for learning and a desire to teach the next generation. Most important of all, is that I met my soul mate here, and together we have a beautiful home and three wonderful furry-babies.
I believe you when I say Virginia isn't the sole representative of the South; I'm sure there's plenty to learn about the other southern states. My cousins in Georgia and Florida seem to be really happy where they are. On the reverse side, my cousin in Arizona isn't fairing so well, and wants to go home to New York, though her reason is that she's suffering from a bad tooth infection that won't go away, and can't get the funding that will help her in that state like she will in NY.
One of these days, I plan to take a trip South to visit those family members. I hear great things about that part of the country from my Uncle.
On the flip side, I speak passionately about New York because that is where I'm from. But there's plenty of bad to go along with the good. Most people will think of people from New York state as being part of the city; but I have to laugh at that because I never even been to the city. People will argue which part of the state is better. People will judge New York based on that one city on Long Island. But the bad parts of New York at least where I'm from include people who are judgemental, people who are constantly in a hurry, and a lot of road rage. It's a lot stricter up there on a lot of policies. It's expensive to live up there, and the taxes are outrageous. If people smoke, they can forget it. It's $10 a pack up there or more, and I heard there's an additional tax in NYC. I'm glad I don't smoke. Some people try to go over the border or to the indian reservations for smokes, but I think there's a law where people have to have the NYS tax stamp on the packs of cigarettes. A lot of people will expect something in return when they do a favor for you. There isn't as much trust up there. I learned from a long time ago to lock my doors whenever I go somewhere. Everyone says I need to chill out when I'm in Bath County, but that's a habit I just can't break. I'm overly cautious. Though that could just be me and not necessarily a New York thing. Sure there are country parts of New York, but the people there are still pretty uptight. So when someone does a favor for me here in Virginia, I find myself asking "Alright how much do I owe you?" I'm always floored when they say I owe them nothing. There's so many regulations up there as well. You have to pay just to take your garbage to the dump. Here, you don't have to pay anything, just put it in the dumpster. Want to go for a swim in the river? In New York I think it's quite frowned upon due to the overly cautious safety concerns. But here, go for it! Just make sure you wear some good water shoes! It's a use your best judgement sort of thing. Plus you can go swimming at the rec area here without a life guard, but they seem to be more strict about that in NYS. No life guard, no swimming. At least you're not supposed to anyway. I have fond memories of swimming at stoney brooke and going under the water falls. Now they're a lot stricter about that, and I think they only allow swimming at certain times, and are restricted to certain areas.

I almost forgot to comment on the Civil War stuff. I believe you're right that they fought for all sorts of reasons. Those who fought to defend themselves from the Northern armies, and those who fought for their rights I could side with. I can see those who would have viewed this as a second American Revolution having valid points. I'm willing to listen to the other side of the story. The only thing I don't support is slavery. But you are right that the Northerners weren't all "angels of mercy" as you put it. I don't like slavery because I feel to oppress another human being and force them into laboring for you is wrong. I think Lincoln did try to avoid a war, but I feel the violence used to "preserve the union" wasn't necessary. I'm not sure I feel that forcing the South to stay with the Union was right. So I'm pretty well divided on the entire issue of the Civil War. I guess I'm just going to need to read up more about it. I find learning about the Southern side of it is interesting though, because I get to hear a side that I didn't get to hear much of when I lived in the North. Regardless, it was a tragic thing to happen. It could certainly happen again if things don't straighten out, but I hate to see the consequences of it. There's no more destructive of a war than a civil war.
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Re: Should I Go?

Postby Kolchak » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:43 pm

Who said the civil war was fought over slavery? The side that won the war, that's who. The winners write the history books. So it must be true, right? The winning side would never lie or make things up.

Grow up for gods sake.

Less than 10% of Southerners owned slaves. You really think they would die for that? Less than a week following the battle of Gettysburg, the same Union soldiers who fought at Gettysburg had to put down anti draft riots by Irish and other immigrants in NYC who did not want to fight in a war, they had no stake in and for a race of people they didn't like. A black orphanage was burned and nobody knows for certain how many blacks were killed by white mob. Take the time to read what many Union soldiers said following the Gettysburg Address. They heard about Lincoln's wanting to end slavery and most who wrote about this said that they had been fighting to preserve the Union, not to end slavery. People in the North and the South considered blacks inferior, and had no desire to fight for their emancipation.

Read any book by Thomas Dilorenzo about Lincoln and see the real man. The Real Lincoln was the first book Dilorenzo wrote about Lincoln. The book has a forward in it by Thomas Sowell. Thomas Sowell is an economics professor at George Mason university, he is also black.

The war was fought over slavery?

If that was true, then answer this question? If any southern state had just quit fighting and come back to the Union. They would have been allowed to keep slavery legal and Lincoln guaranteed he would do nothing to end or hinder it.

No southern state took him up on that. Wonder why?

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